LUTHER AND QUESTIONS

CHAPTER 5

DEAD SLEEPY HEADS, SLEEPY DEAD-HEADS

AND CERTAIN RECIPIENTS OF ETERNAL LIFE

Spiritual Diversities

THE SPIRITUAL SITUATION

Man is very inventive. He invented sin; for which God had invented death. It is not that man invented the possibility of sin; God did that in making the certainty of meaningful life, love and liberty, better than beasts by an infinity, with rational capacity, imaginative leanings, adventurous soarings, philosophic boastings, clear thinking, gracious thoughts, evil zests, sensitive souls, grotesque parodies of life, coming out like an abundant issue from a double fountain.

Once the pipe of purity was broken, then the dammed-up vitality in man spilt, roared, surged into things evil and muted, outrageous and raucous, with a source for light still provided, a redemptive source, a granted source, a redemptive resource, sketched in animal sacrifice, strengthened in spiritual restoration, newly dynamised in divine thrust. It was restorative in nature, so that the medley of many musics, uproarious diversities of life, could now be replaced in one governed by the spirit of holiness, granted the covenant of eternal life; and its basis in pardon could be, as it was, uncovered in the Messiah, Himself first revealed in words and then in works, from Genesis 3:15 onward. His people chosen in this Messiah, the Christ, before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4),were enveloped by grace (Ephesians 2:8, 1:6), given place without cost, one reserved in heaven (I Peter `1:5-8).

There was the problem, there is the solution, and how simply does the word of God speak of this, at the outset:

"God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes,"

as Ecclesiastes 7:29 declares.

This is not an excursion into human psychology, but concerning divinely given theology; nor is it a caper into human follies but rather a quick trip to God-defined pardon, peace and plenty, singular certainty and eternal joy, in the Bible, that verified book, that validated testimony, that unique opportunity for man, to find God (cf. Now the Highway, then the Heights Ch. 1, *3). Bible is distinctive in removing certain confusions, whether about doctrine or transition to Christ. On a biblical basis, the meaning, matrix and setting of man are highly specific. He is not just anyone or anything (even a hedge-clipper is highly specific, and not at all a shovel, for example, and it is a mere manual implement!). The dangers, dynamics, failure and futures, the needs and the corrections, for peace and for understanding are likewise exceedingly carefully imparted to man: heed or not (cf. Prpverbs 1).

If you are a Christian, having received the covenant in the blood of Christ (John 6:53-64, Matthew 26:27-30, II Timothy 1:8-12), and so having for your own, an eternal inheritance (Ephesians 1:11), unconditional in application (John 5:24), marvellous in discipline (Hebrews 12), transformative in nature (Philippians 3:20-21), from the new birth right here on earth (John 3, Titus 3:3-7), to the glorification in heaven (Romans 8:29ff., Colossians 3:1-4): then what a circuit in saving works on the part of Jesus Christ has brought to you such a circuit of salvation.

	Built on the Rock (I Corinthians 10:1ff.) which is Christ (only, Psalm 18, 62),
	you have no merely human unit with conditioning to ponder, whether this or that, sleeping in uncertainty, wherever;
	nor are you subject to a surprisingly slow review process imagined by some, till the end comes, whereas God has made even man's mind able to do vast things exceedingly fast, even though he is a mere creation of His own!
	nor are you subject to someone else's thought on things, such as supreme unction, as a terminal ecclesiastical function.

GOD HAS ACTED. No church of His has no power to react to the contrary, by seizing power to clash with divine promises, or to invent doctrine, to dash human hope. You are not even allowed to call any man on earth - in spiritual terms - father, since Christ declared, ONE is your Father, even God, nor any master, teacher, since ONE is your teacher, Jesus the Christ (Matthew 23:8-10). Great power is available in Christ for great obedience, and even He as Messiah, showed it in keeping with the doctrine commanded by His Father (John 12:48-50).

One of the most beautiful things about eternal life, gift of God, is that it is HIS. Christ has life in Himself (John 5:26), and He is enabled to give it to whom He will (Luke 10:22), willing just as does the Father (John 6:65), the Spirit (Ephesians 1:11-22, 3:14-21, Galatians 3:3,5) confirming, strengthening and sealing the purchased possession, the secured sheep, with the Shepherd of souls the eternal companion. He is this for His sheep, not for what what lurches to death in defiance of the word of God, becoming deadened, the carrion of speculation without ground, or if touching down, then grounded in the dust of presumption. Not thus is His provision; but in Him there is safety, security and eternity (Hebrews 6:17ff., 7:24ff., 9:12, John 5:24, Matthew 7:13-14,24ff., II Timothy 1:8-12, Ephesians 1:11, Proverbs 21:31).

As Paul declares in II Timothy 1, the souls to whom he speaks are not only, as mainstream hearers and receivers of the Christ of the Gospels, already saved. This is indicated in "who has saved us", as in "called with a holy calling", and that with a "grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began." It is not like a football team, one which you may see all but extinguished in the flames of physical ruin, but is one where the result is independent of works (II TIm. 1:9). Now consider this. The Christian, not ersatz but built in genuine faith on the Rock of Christ, having received Him as He is and not doctored up by indelicate doctors of purposely plastic surgery of the word of God (II Cor. 10-11), lives for ever. They are thus freely kept, freely saved, by the Messiah in His own self-declaration of power and purpose (John 10:9,27-28, Matthew 28:18-20, Romans 3:23-27, Ephesians 1:11). The case is such in the hands of the Holy One, the Saviour, God Himself (Isaiah 43:10-11, Philippians 2, John 8:58).

Can the child of God, then, err ? Certainly he can; but Christ cannot; and He is the Rock, the sure foundation (I Cor. 3:11, Isaiah 28:16) and the keeper of souls saved (John 10).

Can the child of God, the Christian, in heart and spirit regenerate, run into gales and capsize a few times ? but of course (Psalm 42:7, Jonah 1-4). Can he be subjected to tempestuous fires ? yes, for the servant is not greater than the Master (John 15:20, I Peter 4:12). But the Master has already won and can confer victory (I Corinthians 15:55-58), having secured the certainty that "as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man," as in I Cor. 15:49 (cf. Phil. 3:20-21).

Back to II Timothy 1, and we learn not only that this assured and free salvation, in its gift, has nothing to do with our works (so that imperfection, the lot of EVERY Christian - I John 1:7, is not a termination force for salvation, but a subject for discipline as needed - Hebrews 12), but with an eternal purpose. This being so, it is indisputable that HIS WORKS being finished and perfect, and ours not to the point in the securing of eternal salvation, the case is secure, as in Romans 8:29ff., where once justified you are in unbreachable circuit given by God. Then you are called and glorified, just as Christ had His own circuit, from heaven to earth, earth to the Cross, and the Cross to preach in hell as in I Peter 3 (The Kingdom of Heaven Ch. 4, Aspects of Glory ... Ch. 5). Indeed, His circuit went to heaven itself, where He continues to be until the restoration of all things (Acts 3:19ff.).

Do you live a grand, victorious life ? Don't then trust in it, for salvation is "not of works". Do works not matter to secure salvation at the outset ? Don't doubt it! but this is the case in terms of its cause, not its results, when it comes to salvation. It is a certain result, good tree, good fruit (Matthew 7); but equally certainly, planting (as in Romans 6) is not growing, and precedes all fruit, being a different operation altogether. Every plant which is not planted by the Father will be pulled up (Matthew 15:13); but then, the call of the Christian is precisely a holy one, and moreover, it is "according to His own purpose and grace," and as to that, it was "given to us before the world began." It is a gift, as in Romans 6:23, the gift of God is eternal life just as surely as the wages of sin is death, and it is a "gift by grace," as in Romans 5:15, so that both the substance and the sending are entirely free, to be received by faith, just as you are "having been saved" persons (Ephesians 2:8), in a course of divine action through faith by grace, that has caused you to obtain an inheritance (Ephesians 1:11), and thus to be sealed by the Spirit, as earnest or guarantee of this inheritance (Ephesians 1:13-14).

The calling of the Christian being not only holy - and making our works to figure here is mere presumption, as if such poor things could influence such massive results where purity is total in the heaven where sin dare not come; but they are given before the world began (as in Ephesians 1:4), in the sublime foreknowledge of God. There is no need for brawling about this calling. It is sharp, clear, decisive. It is subject to fraudulent pretension by those who want to evacuate words of meaning, who rest in part or whole on themselves, their wits, endurance, courage, winningness or whatever, so that some taste but do not swallow the gift (Hebrews 6); but as for those who do indeed eat and drink, receive the substitutionary and effectual sacrifice of Christ, crucified, yes rather resurrected in body (Romans 10:9, Luke 24) ? For them, Christ is their anchor (Hebrews 6:19), secure and securing them from within the holy place.

Thus though some alas are deadened by sin (as in Romans 1:17ff.), holding down the truth like a wrestler, and are spiritually like burnt-out matches, deadheads^*1, not as it were, redheads, yet the passage is clear for those booked (II Timothy 1:12, John 5:24, 4:14, 6:40ff.), and the events of the last day, for mercy smiles in the face of judgment, are to be awaited with a relish. This is reasonable in its sincerity as in I Timothy 1:5, but not fearful of wrath (I John 4:18), though a glorious sense of the awesome grandeur of God always pervades the spirit, for the godly fear of God is clean,

That is like the deep respect and regard, here reverence as well, that a little child might have for a father. Love is not only compatible, but augmented by such an assured delight and wholesome regard.

it is clean, enduring forever (Psalm 19).

Indeed, how Paul exults in his memorable word given to Him in II Timothy 1:12,

"For I know whom I have believed and am persuaded
that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that day,"

that is, judgment.

There is operative faith as in II Timothy 4:7-8:

"I have fought a good fight. I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Finally there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous, will give to me on that day,
and not to me only, but to all who have loved His appearing."

What however about sleepy heads ? what of the notion that when death comes, there is no certitude, or that it cannot be in this life because there are uncertainties, and that even after death in this world, the Christian or hoping to be Christian, sleeps away while those staggeringly slow imaginary computations are made by Christ, to see whether or not this one or that is going to make it! Such is contrary in essence, in kind, in category to Christianity, and the limitation which it gratuitously imposed on the power of God is horrendous, and worse than this, since He chose before the world was founded, and knew before any creation made it to the land of light at all (Ephesians 1:4) and made the reception of eternal life as such independent of works, so that faith, not fiasco, works and to it is granted the gift by grace, sealed, confirmed, assured and free!.

What however, in particular, about sleepy-heads, those supposedly gone from this world and involved in no spiritual operation, while the resurrection bides its time in the wisdom of God (II Peter 3:9) ? Is what is called soul-sleep, a biblical doctrine.

In considering this, let us consider two cases, supposedly of well-known and courageous saints (ALL Christians are saints - cf. Saints and Children of God), who are alleged to have had such a doctrine.

2) LUTHER AND QUESTIONS/SUGGESTIONS

ABOUT SOUL SLEEP AS ONE OF HIS DOCTRINES

Revised February 28, 2013

There is much on this, with citations, in the website noted below. It comes in three parts.

From

Beggars All, Reformation and Apologetics on Luther and Soul Sleep

Part I

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com.au/2006/04/seventh-day-adventist-luther-soul.html

Part II

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com.au/2006/04/seventh-day-adventist-luther-part-two.html

Part III

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com.au/2006/04/luthers-understanding-of-soul-sleep.html

LUTHER AND SOUL SLEEP

A few points may be taken usefully from the above, and are given for meditation. Before this, a few initial points are given.

Re Part I

In Part I of it, preliminary work is done on the immortality of the soul, and Luther shows dislike for vapid, rapid generalisation on philosophical topics, preferring to find from the Bible itself, the precise spiritual formulations from the One who knows, God Himself. He does mention those who slept with their fathers amidst his many musings, to which it could be added that Stephen (Acts 7:60) "fell asleep," which in context seemed as far as possible from indicating his state in the next world, but rather the condition of his life on earth, from which he thus retired, having attained the victory. His gloriously active exit with startlingly intimate access to Christ, suggests - for what follows - no mean welcome! but not on this earth, where 'sleep' brought down the curtain.

In this area, moreover, we need to remember that Christ declared (John 8) that Abraham SAW His day and, the Jews clearly taking this to mean that he and Abraham had communication, He did not deny it. Instead, He gave support to the concept, with the further statement that HE had being before Abraham so much as was. The point, then, being made here is that HE is always alive, and that though His bodily format would die, His Spirit going back to His Father's hands. ANYONE is within the scope of His purvey, and there is no time limit on His knowledge, life to life.

With Abraham, there was his vision of His coming, of His day indeed, following the earthly sojourn of that patriarch (cf. in parallel for others, Revelation 6:9-11). That was the point of the affirmation of Christ. This Abraham was a living person who could perceive Him act, just as Elijah and Moses were able to do, in reviewing what was to come, in the transfiguration (Luke 9:30-36). Thus we find that that departed patriarch SAW His day, a point enlarged in that the fact that Christ being not yet 50 years old, brought up by His adversaries in challenge, made no difference to His statement. In fact, He met it head-on, in sustained rebuttal.

The sort of seeing related to His own timelessness, so that Abraham, absolutely pre-dated by Him, and post-earthly sojourn, saw Christ's day (cf. Matthew 22:23-33). Unlike those before Him, who wanted Abraham to stand as if in austere judgment over an errant Christ, in fact this same Abraham had rejoiced to see His day. In this, it is confirmation, not abnegation, which is contributed in terms of that patriarch! The issue was not Abraham's knowledge, but His participation in awareness of the actual event of Christ's coming to earth, being personally acquainted with it, when it came, and rejoicing at the advent.

What the of Luther on such a topic ?

Luther passes into this realm only putatively, with no sense of profundity.

In fact, body and life on this earth may rest for such as Stephen, who beheld the glory of the Lord as He departed, but this is so far from implication about what happens following this "rest from their labours" on earth (Revelation 14:13), as to leave no room for less than admiring wonder on what happened when the One he saw, became the One to whom he went, and the exultant glory of his vision as he departed this world, became the site of the reception of his spirit, commended into the Lord's own hands, the Lord who is in heaven (Acts 3:19-21)!

That however is just an introductory point as we proceed to find what is said on the site of our reference, concerning Luther.

In fact, Luther is very stringent on imperious philosophy and seeks to avoid careless exegesis, noting his limits. What seems so, in his view, is one kind of thing, datum, item; but in principle, it is nowhere near enough to constitute a doctrine. This he strenuously affirms.

“The philosophers have indeed disputed about the immortality of the soul, but so coldly that they seem to be setting forth mere fables. Aristotle above all argues about the soul in such a way that he diligently and shrewdly avoids discussing its immortality anywhere; nor did he want to express what he thought about it. Plato related what he had heard rather than his own opinion. Nor can its immortality be proved by any human reason, for it is not a thing “under the sun” to believe that the soul is immortal. In the world it is neither seen nor understood as certain that souls are immortal.” (LW 15:59)

FROM PART II

Here we read this, this time from the author of the site noted at the outset:

In part one I demonstrated that some of the historical information being utilized by these Adventists was not accurate. I would further point out that some of the information they use is being selectively cited. In the web document Martin Luther and William Tyndale on the State of the Dead, the author cites Hugh Kerr’s book A Compend of Luther’s Theology (Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1943). Kerr’s book is a helpful, short, anthology of Luther citations. Chapter 11 deals specifically with Luther’s eschatology - not though, in detail. The Adventist web document provides this Luther citation from Kerr’s book:

"We should learn to view our death in the right light, so that we need not become alarmed on account of it, as unbelief does; because in Christ it is indeed not death, but a fine, sweet and brief sleep, which brings us release from this vale of tears, from sin and from the fear and extremity of real death and from all the misfortunes of this life, and we shall be secure and without care, rest sweetly and gently for a brief moment, as on a sofa, until the time when he shall call and awaken us together with all his dear children to his eternal glory and joy. For since we call it a sleep, we know that we shall not remain in it, but be again awakened and live, and that the time during which we sleep, shall seem no longer than if we had just fallen asleep. Hence, we shall censure ourselves that we were surprised or alarmed at such a sleep in the hour of death, and suddenly come alive out of the grave and from decomposition, and entirely well, fresh, with a pure, clear, glorified life, meet our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in the clouds . . .
Scripture everywhere affords such consolation, which speaks of the death of the saints, as if they fell asleep and were gathered to their fathers, that is, had overcome death through this faith and comfort in Christ, and awaited the resurrection, together with the saints who preceded them in death.—A Compend of Luther's Theology, edited by Hugh Thomson Ker[sic.], Jr., p. 242."

Now, I realize I have yet to directly tackle Luther’s view of soul sleep. But if I were quoting this book, I would make sure to read all the Luther citations on Luther’s understanding of the soul after death that Kerr provides (which are only a few). Had the author wanted to use this compend to establish Luther’s view, one wonders why he didn’t begin with the citation found one page before (241):

“It is true that souls hear, perceive, and see after death; but how it is done, we do not understand… If we undertake to give an account of such things after the manner of this life, then we are fools. Christ has given a good answer; for his disciples were without doubt just as curious. ‘He that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live,’ (John xi.25); likewise: ‘Whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord’s,’ (Rom. Xiv.8)… ‘The soul of Abraham lives with God, his body lies here dead,’ it would be a distintion (sic) which to my mind is mere rot! I will dispute it. One must say: ‘The whole Abraham, the entire man, lives!’ – Conversations with Luther, pp.122 f.”

Source: Hugh Kerr, A Compend of Luther’s Theology (Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1943), 241

So far the article. In this quotation, Luther is setting the tone and significance of what follows: discursive, and by no means assured. Thus, the musing, meditative, and indeed variable way Luther treats this topic is thus most apparent, and it is assuredly not one of his doctrines, for they are in a category which require a far better testimony. What comes next establishes this fact beyond any rational doubt. One does not have as a doctrine that with which one is INCLINED TO AGREE.

FROM PART III of the article.

This can be seen early in his career in a letter to Nicholas von Amsdorf (January 13, 1522). Luther responded to the question of what happens to the soul after death. Note how Luther responds cautiously (bold added):

“Concerning your “souls,” I have not enough [insight into the problem] to answer you. I am inclined to agree with your opinion that the souls of the just are asleep and that they do not know where they are up to the Day of Judgment. I am drawn to this opinion by the word of Scripture, “They sleep with their fathers.” The dead who were raised by Christ and by the apostles testify to this fact, since they were as if they had just awakened from sleep and didn’t know where they had been. To this must be added the ecstatic experiences of many saints. I have nothing with which I could overthrow this opinion. But I do not dare to affirm that this is true for all souls in general, because of the ecstasy of Paul, and the ascension of Elijah and of Moses (who certainly did not appear as phantoms on Mount Tabor).

"Who knows how God deals with the departed souls? Can’t [God] just as well make them sleep on and off (or for as long as he wishes [them to sleep]), just as he overcomes with sleep those who live in the flesh? ..."

REVIEW OF SOME MAJOR ASPECTS OF THE ABOVE MATERIAL

AND CITATIONS TO THE POINT

What then do we find from the documentation here concerning soul sleep ?

It is apparent that Luther diversifies his opinions on this topic, affirming variously for the departed saints, total life with God in every sense, or intermittent sleep, musing, reflecting, unsure, saying 'Who knows ?' while endeavouring to fill in from here and there. He does not hold the doctrine of soul sleep, then for these reasons.

He varies in what he says.

He limits it to musing, sometimes going so far, sometimes going further.

Who knows how God handles the matter is the essence of his position, a mobile and meditative one. He also makes some assertions of very considerable alert life for departed saints, on occasion.

Taking into account his inclinings, and opinings, his movements of thought and his entire lack of didactic assault, we find this meditative and variable musing as the nature of his position on the topic.

You could perhaps aptly say that Luther inclines to diversified views on this topic, is not doctrinaire or dogmatic, muses, opines, inclines, considers, and with something akin to a shrug, affirms LIFE after death, and GOD'S OWN UNKNOWN modes of handling it, Luther doing this with probings and uncertainties.

He hates philosophic presumption and carnal certainties based on inadequate premises, and can even condemn something held because of the inadequate KIND of BASIS for it, a mere presumption, whereas he is able to hold something which may in some ways be similar or different, because this is with surgical precision, taken from the Bible. Source and certainty with him are in principle entirely what matters, and it matters enormously to him when anything else is done IN METHOD.

Outside his perceived basis, the Bible, he finds himself bound not to silence, but to NON DOCTRINE. Such is his express intention. As to attitude, it is a very different Luther who deals with doctrine outside or beyond the Bible. This does not give certainty to all of his actual doctrines; but it gives the lie to including among them those whom he does not so define and declare categorically in such terms, and excludes with profound force, what he reveals or shows not to lie within biblical certainty, such as is the case of soul-sleep.

3) WILLIAM TYNDALE 1484-1536,

English Bible translator and martyr

Revised February 28,2013

In Britain, William Tyndale, translator of the Bible into English, came to the defence of the resurrection wonder and unique glory. In the process, he made certain statements which are in the right direction, but too robust. They assuredly have nothing to teach on soul sleep.

1) First we find a statement concerning a Preface to a New Testament of Tyndale's concerning resurrection, prayer and state after death.

From

http://www.thebibletruth.org/IsThereL.htm

The martyr Tyndale, referring to the state of the dead, declared: " I confess openly, that I am not persuaded that they be already in the full glory that the Saviour is in, or the elect angels of the Creator are in.
Neither is it any article of my faith; for if it were so, I see not but then the preaching of the resurrection of the flesh were a thing in vain."

William Tyndale, Preface to New Testament (ed.1534). Reprinted in British Reformers-Tindal, Frith, Barnes, page 349.

This statement is reviewed below in its place.

2) Further in the same direction is found at

http://biblelight.net/luther-tyndale.htmH

Below is an excerpt presented from this.

teaching of conditional immortality. This, as well as other teachings, brought him into direct conflict with the papal champion, Sir Thomas More, likewise of England. In 1529 More had strongly objected to the "pestilential sect" represented by Tyndale and Luther, because they held that "all souls lie and sleep till doomsday." In 1530 Tyndale responded vigorously, declaring:

   And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection.... And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good case as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection?—William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk. 4, ch. 4, pp. 180, 181.

   Tyndale went to the heart of the issue in pointing out the papacy's draft upon the teachings of "heathen philosophers" in seeking to establish its contention of innate immortality.
   Thus:

   The true faith putteth [setteth forth] the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put [set forth] that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshly doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And because the fleshly-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it.—lbid., p. 180.

In fact, this quotation from An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue goes further as below.

"Wherefore, sir, if we loved the laws of God, and would occupy ourselves to fulfil them, and would on the other side be meek, and let God alone with his secrets, and suffer him to be wiser than we, we should make none article of the faith of this or that. And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good case as the angels be ? And then what cause is there of the resurrection ?" This is found on p. 181.

In this you see strong emphasis on Tyndale's point that the resurrection is a great and glorious affair, far beyond its prelude (as in I Corinthians 15), that is, the waiting on departed saints in the presence of the Lord, before the resurrection. It is that gap which he wishes to use in order to remove the exaltation of 'the saints' both as prayer target and edict site for papal pronouncements. He is far from making declarations about this state to the point that he cites Deuteronomy 29, concerning "the secret things", to make it clear that there are elements of THOUGHT which one may have, which do not coincide with elements of the BIBLE. Such things dubbed by him here 'secret' are of course not matters of his doctrines. These have no such authoritative standing as does the Bible.

That in turn shows his trend in this affair concerning the state of the departed saints prior to resurrection, the domain of imagined and unscriptural "soul sleep" as a condition set. It is made exceedingly clear, with Luther as now with Tyndale, that this is NOT an area for didactic dogmatics.

Tyndale is objecting to that very thing. Let us now however, resume the article which has been before us.

   In yet another section of the same treatise, dealing with the "invocation of saints," Tyndale uses the same reasoning, pointing out that the doctrine of departed saints being in heaven had not yet been introduced in Christ's day:

[pg. 575]

   And when he [More] proveth that the saints be in heaven in glory with Christ already, saying, "If God be their God, they be in heaven, for he is not the God of the dead;" there he stealeth away Christ's argument, wherewith he proveth the resurrection: that Abraham and all saints should rise again, and not that their souls were in heaven; which doctrine was not yet in the world. And with that doctrine he taketh away the resurrection quite, and maketh Christ's argument of none effect.—Ibid., p. 118.

Tyndale presses his contention still further by showing the conflict of papal teaching with St. Paul, as he says in slightly sarcastic vein:

   "Nay, Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again." And I marvel that Paul had not comforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist [known] it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what cause should be of the resurrection)—Ibid.

Source: Seventh-day Adventists Answer Questions on Doctrine, copyright 1957 by the Review and Herald Publishing Association, pages 569-575.

Review of Major Thrust of the Above

What then do we find on the documentation so far provided ?

If this is the best case highly motivated people, apparently Seventh Day Adventists, can mount, then it is far from a doctrine of soul sleep. It is a matter, if you will, of comparative spiritual anatomy. Tyndale evidently has two major points in mind in refutation of More's doctrine re saints in full glory in heaven.

First, and foremost, he felt that the concept of intrinsic immortality in the human soul mitigated the glory of the resurrection, so necessary in balance to our present state, and so wonderful and magnificent when it comes. What profit if the dead do not rise ? he asks.

This appears to be a case of being somewhat extreme. Certainly the disparity is great between our present state and that of the resurrection of the saints (as in I Corinthians 15:34). Paul dies daily, he declares; what good then if the dead do not rise! They assuredly will do so, some to everlasting contempt and some to everlasting joy and beauty of holiness with the Lord. That in itself, is simply a contrast between NOW and THEN, the glory. The resurrection will be vastly transformative, indeed transmutative relative to what we are now.

If however, you wish to refine the contrast, to a new comparison, so that it is now to be between those already dead and awaiting the resurrection - not just those now living - and those raised at last from the dead in the bodily format as in II Corinthians 5, which appears the point at issue: this still has a result adverse to More's plenary concept of the waiting time in heaven. Paul's argument here is still partially disregarded by More, but there has been a movement in the base for contrast, on the part of Tyndale. Paul's point revolved around the fact the he lives (in this form now) and will live (in a glorious finale); and the two are most disparate. Yet how does this affect going straight to heaven in glory before the resurrection ? Tyndale has made a movement in his logical base, which while not irrelevant, should be noted. A fulsome glory now before the resurrection but after death on this earth, would substantially denude the resurrection (as well as avoid such sites as Revelation 6), and that is sound against More.

Thus Tyndale has one point here that is entirely valid. There is not the SAME sort of wonder in immediate after-life for the saints (though it is still given wonderful attestation, as in Revelation 7:14ff., in a celestial manner) if they go from FULL glory then, to resurrection glory thereafter. It is great, indeed, and vast the wonder of this time with Christ for departed saints, before the resurrection, but the final resurrection exceeds even this. It has a certain glory which excels.

In the actual resurrection of the body, where the dead arise from the dust (as Daniel 12 puts it, cf. Isaiah 26:19, confirming the concept of the focus on what is left HERE, as they sleep with their fathers and so on),

	where no more do the saints exhibit concern, as they do in Revelation 6,
	where waiting is required for the completion of the full list of their brethren to be made up in due time, in the history remaining before Christ's return,

a greater glory of peace and consummation remains.

Till then, in this after-life, pre-resurrection depiction, there is a future, and this has an even greater dispersal of the illimitable blessing of heaven. When the resurrection itself comes, so does the excelling of what went before. In what ways might one not the glory that excels in the resurrection of the body ?

First, then it is the finale of individual change. Second, there is no waiting for wind-up elements for the long Age of the Gospel, past - it IS wind-up. Thirdly, horror is no more being perpetrated against some of the brethren. Fourthly, the triumph manifest has greater balm in retrospect. Fifth, the negating, abrasive and ruinous work of the devil, will be neither pending, nor active.

The resurrection is far better than this pause in proceedings, between the death on this earth of the saint, and the resurrection; and to place souls as if in entirely fulfilled glory in heaven, filled to the full, with immortal blessings as an innate thing now fulfilled, almost as a right, rather than a gift of many components, is a mixture of philosophy and religion, appalling to Tyndale.

THIS glory is far beyond that of the saints in waiting, who in their waiting state are given no biblically stated power to answer prayer, and cannot simply slickly be assigned it. What it is, is to be found out from God, not man, from the word of God, not from the thought of man. The resurrection will categorically change things with incorruptible and eternal power then making the form given man, the finale of fulfilment a wonder indeed (Philippians 3:20-21) , even with likeness to the body of Christ (I John 3). NOTHING at present has such a felicity as that, amid the entire creation of the fallen race of mankind, nor is anything before the resurrection to come in this fulsome category, great though the rest, companionship and grace is for those waiting. who have indeed gone to be with Christ, which is far better.

Here then, in what has been reviewed, one finds nothing cited against the view that the saints are far from inactive in kind, category and dispensation in the interim before resurrection, the point centring merely on a question of comparative states on the way to the finale. Their glory is limited at this phase, but they are not statedly put to sleep! Thus we are left from Tyndale, with something less than a full and apt discrimination between these phases of life; but not at all any doctrine on soul sleep. He denies the relevant degree of consummation in the interim state, contrasting it with just that superlative completion to come in the resurrection. In do doing, he does not create soul sleep, or object to a living, reality for them, any more than does Luther, in terms of doctrine.

Luther ponders varying elements; but does not conclude or dogmatise. Tyndale makes a sharp rebuke to anyone virtually equating the resurrection state and that after this earth's time for the saints, prior to it. However in honouring the resurrection he does not void the state prior to it. You do not create sleep by denying the full consummation before that comes in resurrection. Strictly, simply for one so doing, such emphasis should not even create confusion. Nevertheless, it is necessary to examine various phases and facets of description, as Luther sought to do, at least discursively. Martin Luther's insistence that one does not TELL God about it, rather than listen, is the very good part of his musings on this topic. Listening, for his part, he does not find, except a variety of aspects, in sum, reverting to the secret things of Deuteronomy 29, when it comes to precise depiction of the time in between.

What then ?

Vital to what Luther DOES say is this: that there is no inherent reality in man that has eternal blessedness as an assignable outcome in terms of categories of assumption. ALL is of faith, that it might be of grace, and the actualities are as stated, not as simply papally assigned. The resurrection will indeed transform staggeringly, providing whether for those then deceased or from others then alive, a prodigious consummation. All these final things have a magnificent of power coming to its acme, when as Paul says in Philippians 3,

"For our citizenship is in heaven, from where also we look for the Saviour,
the Lord Jesus Christ,
Who shall change our lowly body, that it may be fashioned like His glorious body,
According to the working by which He is able
even to subdue all things to Himself.":

This anti-papal presumption approach, in Luther, when that is his topic, in itself says NOTHING about soul sleep; in this comporting with the Bible in its own elemental emphases, and whole teaching. Coming consummation does not create sleep before it; and ceasing one's labours on this earth does not mean nodding off in Christ. Musing is not doctrine, and variability in musing is even less so.

In fact, going to be with Christ (who, incidentally as in Acts 3:19-21, in the interim, is IN heaven, where therefore, prior to the resurrection, He may be joined when others come to Him, leaving this earth), as Paul declaims, has a certain quality. The prior taste for it, the apostolic declaration concerning it, going from this world to being in waiting with Christ, is this: it is FAR BETTER than just continuing here!

He is for that matter, not stating that Christ in you, the hope of glory as in Colossians 1:27, is much surpassed by being asleep; that slumber FAR surpasses the vital and active knowledge of the Lord in empowered mission on earth. Rather he declaims that going from whatever nearness to Christ is here on earth, such as Stephen so vigorously attested, to be with Christ right now, is far better than anything found here for the Christian. The prodigy of the presence of Christ with His unsearchable riches, as one walks on earth with Him, is NOT being set as nothing compared with going to sleep; for sufferings or not, to have the Creator of this earth and the Redeemer IN YOU, by His Spirit, is incomparably beyond anything where He is not being so known!

Again, William Tyndale, for is part, is concerned at errors of the papacy, and in particular at the detestable, traditionalistic additive to the Bible, that you may meaningfully

(as distinct from horrendously, in seeking to contact the dead, so fully forbidden)

pray to saints. If then they do not inhabit the paths of full glory yet, he seems to reason, what point is there in assuming such a magnitude of felicity in them as to make of them effective recipients of prayer! Even now they are far short of the glory to come. Pray to them ? Ludicrous: this is the message. They are not installed in any cock-pit for prayer! That is his thrust.

Again, the trend appears somewhat extreme in one aspect, for the contrast between now and reception by Christ after death, is not the same as that between the latter and the final resurrection, and this distinction needs to be kept sharply in mind. It is enough to note that there is no slightest biblical evidence for prayer to the dead, saint or other, and that Saul's attempt to indulge in it was a case of spiritual shock treatment for his folly and presumption, adding to his burdens. By no means did it lessening them! and that saints with Christ prior to the resurrection do not have the entire wonder and splendour of the resurrection as yet, when at tjat time, they shall rule for ever and ever (Revelation 21:22ff.).

Once more we find in what is cited selectively to attest a DOCTRINE of soul sleep, there is found not one word or implication to this effect, not a scintilla from the Tyndale sources so selectively cited.

Like Luther, Tyndale is very concerned at the papish ramifications, by which the pope says what he will, putting these souls here or there in this or that way, with no more authority than a chatterbox, or at best, an unfounded and ill-grounded philosopher. The word of God is categorically different from this, and large imaginations are required to come back to earth among precise words, words sent there from heaven, and to add nothing to them (cf. Mark 7:7ff.). The Rock (I Corinthians 10) is fine for building, but sand simply gets in your eyes, so that you do not see its weakness and eventual woes.

Neither Luther nor Tyndale are marvels of sublime focus on this interim period for the saints, though they do raise good issues. What they had to do, each in his specialised field, the chief mission and commission for each, was however exceedingly well done. It is good to imitate them in this. It is not however good to try to reduce what they say to a pliable pulp, and label it differently to what it is, in order to support doctrines nowhere demonstrable from the Bible, and often contradicted in it. No such doctrine of soul-sleep has been unearthed in the ambit of this survey, on the part of Luther or Tyndale. What has been found is their acute disinclination to hold as doctrine, in principle, what is not demonstrable from the biblical text itself and their aversion to such practices.

As to the Seventh Day Adventist group, mentioned in a note,
the reader may desire to see a coverage-

Gift of God's Grace in Christ Jesus Ch. 1 and also,

Christ the Citadel Chs. 5 and esp. 6, in
Hapless Hitches ... Ch. 1 as marked - in two places,
Open to Him ... Ch. 3 as marked, and the
Sermon Galatians 4-5 as marked.

╬ See also the new Appendix on SDA, in

Lively Lessons on Spiritual Fellowship Ch. 4.

4) LATERAL REFERENCES

Concerning the resurrection itself, see Ch. 3, above, and concerning eternal life in the Old Testament, see Ch. 2. Concerning the coming to Christ, see for example "All This Rot about Not Believing," and Creating Waves. Concerning the spurious and the sincere, see Crosses and Losses..

NOTE

Reheads is a name that has been much used for certain matches, to indicate their liveliness in lighting.
Much that is lively is false flammability in spiritual terms (). Moreover Jude and II Peter speak of what is spiritually burnt out, or blackened, dismal or doomed for incessant rebellion of an acute type. There is no life left, as in a burnt-out match, these being such as "false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies," one other characteristic being unconscionable exploitation of the people in churches.

This type of hype, of exploitative evil, neo-theological arrogance, innovation in the name of God, has a characterisation and destiny of deep doom, without light, like a dead match head, black, carboniferous, ready to disassemble. II Peter 2:12 describes the situation further, as does Jude. "While they promise them liberty," the prophecy notes, "they themselves are slaves of corruption," I Peter 2:19. They come under the heading of false prophets, and as predicted for this genre, in Jeremiah 23, in terms of commission, the Lord designates it thus: "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran!" - 23:21. This national tragedy in ancient Israel with those who "caused My people to err" - 23:13, Jeremiah is given to predict, is the type of thing which will come to its height "in the latter days," a phrase indicating the end of the Age. Then "you will understand it perfectly"- 23:19-20.

II Peter 2-3 confirms this, just as Jesus the Christ indicated (Matthew 24:24), a coming surge as the end approaches, in this spiritual fraud and falsity.